July 31, 2015
A Suggestion for Camera Clubs
Lone Man No 30
When I speak to camera clubs, I’ve noticed that most of them have some sort of monthly competition and/or the critiquing of images. And if you’ve read my blog for very long, you know that I am not a fan of either.
Starting with my article “Art is Not a Competition” and ending with my “Why I Don’t Critique Other People’s Work” I’ve argued that neither competition or critiquing is conducive to developing one’s own Vision.
Instead I’ve made the case that rather than learning about what others think of your work, you should decide how you feel about it. And that can only come from having a Vision and then honestly appraising how well you expressed that Vision.
Recently, after one of my presentation and during the Q&A session that followed, someone asked me this question (paraphrased):
“So based on what you’ve said tonight, I’m guessing you would not agree with our club’s monthly competition and critiquing of images?”
Wow, what was I going to say? I had met with the club’s executive committee earlier that evening and had learned about their many well organized activities, which included those monthly competitions and critiques. These were nice people, good people, sincere people who believed in what they were doing.
In a split second I had to decide how to answer that question: should I avoid giving offense by offering an artful “non-answer” or should I tell the truth?
I told the truth.
As I stood there expressing my opposition to competitions and critiques, the thought occurred that I should also offer an alternative. And so here is my suggestion to camera clubs as an alternative to competitions and photo critiques.
Once a year have each person bring an image that they really love and have them explain the story behind the image.
- How they came to create it.
- Did they have a Vision for that image, and if so, when did it emerge?
- Have them talk about their creative process.
- Have them explain where they feel that they hit or missed the mark.
- Have them tell the group why they love this image (this is the most important item!)
And then let the audience ask questions and make supportive comments. Instruct the audience not to discuss the technical aspects of the image or ask technical questions and most importantly, refrain from giving advice or explaining how they themselves would have created this image.
In a sense this would be a “show and tell” that focuses on what the person intended and how they feel about their work, rather than what others think or would have done.
Initially some may find this approach challenging, because they may not feel that they have a Vision, while others may want to ask technical questions and offer suggestions. But with a good moderator and some practice, I think that it would be beneficial to focus on the creator and their Vision.
If you think this idea has merit, please suggest it to your club!
Cole
I am an avid reader and follower of your ethic Cole,and although I feel it is a lot harder in practice to follow and a lot of strength of character is required than it would originally suggest! I do feel that it is the way forward.
And I’m trying:-) ( very my wife would say )
I will suggest this to my club
Regards nick
Hey Cole!
I certainly agree with your “art is not a competition” and your “I don’t do critiques” positions. Your response to the question about how the club can move beyond the competitive aspects of critiques was right on. However, I don’t think that your idea goes far enough. I’m not sure that it does enough to move folks beyond the “I don’t know anything about art but, I know what I like.” syndrome. Isn’t the artist’s mission to understand why particular photographs communicate a story or feeling better than another photo?
Short of taking classes in art appreciation and graphic design how about offering the club members an opportunity express why an image works for them. Ask such questions as, “How does in image make you feel?” Happy? Sad? Angry? Excited? Peaceful? Uneasy? Then, “Why does the image make you feel that way?” Point of view? Balance or lack of balance? Colors? Of course there are plenty of other questions, these are examples.
I’m sure you can understand where I’m going with this… First: the photographers learn that there are no wrong answers. Second: they will begin to understand what visual cues really communicate to each of them. Then, they will have insight to their own images, they will gain security in the validity of their own opinions, and they will begin to develop and understand their personal visions.
Thanks for getting me to think a little more constructively about this issue.
Best wishes,
Rich
You are right Nick, it’s easy for me to say “just do it” but it is very hard. I have to work on it continually.
Rich, you make a good point. I love this sentence:
“Then, they will have insight to their own images, they will gain security in the validity of their own opinions, and they will begin to develop and understand their personal visions.”
Hi Cole.
That’s really a good idea, for a good reason………even though I’m not in a club.
Hello Cole
I have been a member of two clubs and as I was a beginner I did learn from the competitions. Once I reached the end of that learning curve I was experimenting and finding my own style which the judges, that do the rounds of clubs, didn’t like. Fair enough, but I realised that the majority of clubs produce what I call ‘club’ images, all within rules to a set subject with basic input by the photographer. This might sound a bit harsh as there are good photographers within clubs, but I have been to exhibitions where there are entries from clubs and from professional or independent photographers and you can see or feel the difference. Clubs do have their place, and if you learn as much as you need then you can take that knowledge and ‘do your own thing’, break the rules and develop in your own way. Well that’s what I did, and I did try to suggest changes to competition but club mentality is strong.
Barbara, a club often does have a certain mentality to it, and that’s okay if that’s what the members want. Let’s face it, many people who join a club want to be photographers and not artists. They want to document and not create. And that’s okay.
But I talked to enough clubs and members to know that there is a group who would like to pursue photography as art and would to focus on the creative as well as the technical.
I’d love to see clubs address those interests as well.
Hi again Cole,
I agree 100% on camera club competitions.
I have a few friends who are members of a photographic society here in Australia and they have the monthly judging just as all others do.
Several times I have been asked whether or not I would join. Answer is always the same – nope!
While I love meeting over a coffee and discussing photography, it seems to me that while a ‘club’ may be a good place for a beginner to learn some elementary aspects of the craft, eventually a lot of them start producing images designed to win that month.
In addition, their output seems to follow the lead of the dominant photographer, the ‘alpha’ if you will, and very little seems to be an output reflecting the individual vision of the person involved.
Not for me, although I do not criticise them for their choice – each to their own.
What would Ayn say – 😉
Thank you Cole and to others who have responded to this discussion as to how ‘camera clubs’ might broaden their ideas. Perhaps the clue is in the title. It’s a ‘camera club’ not a ‘photography club’, nor even a ‘photographic art club’, therefore members are more inclined to be concerned about camera technique and adherence to a set of rules (for competitions) which everyone understands. The question of art and the emotion in an image rarely is covered. I will suggest your idea Cole but I fear the members may be too set in their ways. No harm in trying though! Alan
Hi, I agree entirely with you. I once posted a photo of a Lion sleeping in the sun. He was lying just out of sight of all the other tourists in South Africa’s Kruger national park. They were ooh’ing and aah’ing over the Lioness lying in the open. I managed to get a full frame image of the sleeping male as he appeared to me between the Wild Sage – the rest of his body was not visible. The comment I received were “Nice picture of spaghetti…” etc referring to the wild grass and sage that was framing the Lion’s face. That commentor has either never been to a Wild Life reserve like Kruger or just could not understand that one doesn’t walk up to a Lion and ask him to pose for you LOL you take the photographs you are presented with – that is why it is called photo opportunities…
This entry reminded me of a quote by one of my favorite authors, Henry David Thoreau: It’s not what you look at that matters, but what you see.
Competition alters your vision. In an effort to win group approval, artists may begin to develop a style and vision that is not their own, but rather one that a certain group of people appreciates. Rich’s idea on learning what others see and feel, as opposed to evaluating the art on their own terms, has merit in discovering if your vision in creating the image is a shared experience or different. Even that introduces elements of influence, for better or worse. But certainly it’s damaging to open the dialog to what someone would have done differently. As a non-competitive person, I think life in general would be better with more cooperation than competition, and it has no place in real art. A very fine blog entry. Thank you.
I’ve never understood clubs, well for myself, I understand other people like them. I’m far to selfish with what I want to do with my photography that I don’t want to hear what others have to say.
I’m not saying they are no good or people shouldn’t attend them but I would find them a diversion from my work.
What strikes me about your points is they are all the art, not the science. I think the science ie the technical side is relatively easy but it’s the art, that’s the hard part and requires a lot more internal work from the individual.
I was a member of a large club in Houston for years. I was even the competition director. I gave talks lectures and pleadings to get the “competition” out of the club and do a monthly showing of ones 1 “best” work explained by the imager. That was met with members calling for my execution or at least a full mental physical. I also served on the PPA national and Texas PPA competition committee for a time and I agree with Cole competition breeds similarly similar images at the next competition round. The photographer who the judges loved in the previous competition is now replicated by the ribbon, award, or PPA merit seeking imaging hoard seeking the magic photo/photoshop secrete to the formula of success. Which photoshop “unsuck” filter did you use to fix-make the image? Or you a Canonite or a Nikonian? Was your toung in your left or right cheek when you tripped the shutter? The visionary is a singularly individual and loner road. Vision does trump all else. I would love to see a real photo discussion group where like the lost generation we could come together over tea or coffee or wine or good double oak bourbon and have a no judgement conversation about visions imaging and such. Namaste, Michael L. Young
Dear Cole,
thanks again for this thought-provoking post.
As discussed in earlier exchanges, I appreciate your “artistic celibacy” philosophy, and your position with respect the club activities in the post are consistent with it.
You are a strong advocate of having a Vision, which to me translates as “seeing reality around me in a certain way, and *communicating* it to other people in a visual (photographic) way”. Personally, I can’t see the point of having a Vision and expressing it if not to communicate to others – otherwise, if it is for my own purposes, I’ve already “seen it” in my own mind, I would not have to externalize it .
From this point of view, I like Rich’s ideas of having people tell you *what* they get from your image – regardless of whether they like it or not (always personal taste). This would be interesting feedback if one is trying to communicate something.
I can see two ways to do this – one is by having the artist state beforehand what is it they are trying to communicate, and then people giving feedback relative to that. This is essentially what you propose.
From being a professor, I’ve learned that this “explanation” process often leads the artist to better understand (and thus perfect) his/her Vision.
A second approach would be to just let people express their feelings/reactions, and then the artist can relate that to his/her intentions. I think this second approach could be more productive, especially if the artist tries then to explain his goals (as in the first approach) – being forced to explicitly state something is a powerful way to force understanding of it.
Having this conversation, in a non-competitive judgmental environment could be productive to all involved.
Just my 2c :-)!
Daniel
So many great points made here, thank you all. A couple that stand out to me:
1. Some people want to belong to a camera club, focus on equipment and win awards. That’s cool if that’s what you want.
2. Maybe a small start would be to simply change the name from “camera club” to “photographic association.” A small thing, but something to start the change in how they see themselves.
3. I really like what Roxana said:
“Competition alters your vision. In an effort to win group approval, artists may begin to develop a style and vision that is not their own, but rather one that a certain group of people appreciates.
I think life in general would be better with more cooperation than competition, and it has no place in real art.”
4. And these great nuggets from James!
“I’m far to selfish with what I want to do with my photography that I don’t want to hear what others have to say.
I think the science, ie: the technical side, is relatively easy but it’s the art that’s the hard part and requires a lot more internal work from the individual.”
5. Michael offered this great thought:
The visionary is a singularly individual and loner road. Vision does trump all else. I would love to see a real photo discussion group where like the lost generation, we could come together over tea or coffee or wine or good double oak bourbon and have a no judgement conversation about Visions, imaging and such.”
I appreciate everyone’s thoughts on this. I know there are some reading this post and the resulting discussion who disagree and feel that there is value in competitions and critiques, and perhaps as Willie said:
“While I love meeting over a coffee and discussing photography, it seems to me that while a ‘club’ may be a good place for a beginner to learn some elementary aspects of the craft, eventually a lot of them start producing images designed to win that month.
In addition, their output seems to follow the lead of the dominant photographer, the ‘alpha’ if you will, and very little seems to be an output reflecting the individual vision of the person involved.”
Cole
I totally agree with your views both of critiques and competitions. They contribute little to ones personal development. Only to ego. I will add one more thought a quote from the ancient Taoist philosopher Lao Tzu “To organize is to destroy.” This applies to anything that involves free expression or free thought.
Don Grant
Have to say I agree with you…..have just gone through a great disagreement with members of the planners of the programs at a camera club I have attended for 14 years, and I came to the same thought…get rid of rating photos as first second third etc….I did suggest that an outside judge should comment on the fine points of each photo and then give suggestions to consider when shooting similar scenes.
I was voted down by a 76 percent margin. The club has always had such competitions, and I had concluded as did you that rating photos does not do anything at all in terms of education or helping people learn…
the rating is for people who only :want to win” and score points.
Trouble is that the club meets twice monthly..one meeting for education, and the second one for “competition.” I have quit submitting photos in the competition phase, as I do not care of anyone’s opinion about my photos. And I end up going to very few meetings anymore, although for 5 or 6 years I was the yearly top point getter….and am now reformed!
Oddly, a person who is a point grabber and would quit the club if we stopped giving points, is the one who sent your information to my son, who in turn sent it to me.
al holliday in Pennsylvania.
I do agree, for the most part. I tend to agree with what Barbara Martin says, the critiques can be useful for beginners. There are certain aspects that must be learned, composition and sharpness and impact. One must master the basic of the exposure triangle and composition first. So for beginners comments and critiques can be very useful. When someone first starts photographing a particular subject feedback can be useful – how many of us look back at those first few HDR images that we created, they were all orangey and over-saturated and grungy, now we can offer advice to create wonderfully realistic tone mapped images that allow the viewer to enjoy the image, not to see it an immediately think HDR. And perhaps a particular scene calls for a grungy HDR, that is OK, but we know how to create an image that fits the mood better. Suggesting a smaller aperture for more depth of field, or a tripod for slower shutter speeds, or suggesting techniques to get a sharp image – those ARE examples of useful feedback for a beginner. But after those basics have been mastered then the competitions can be stifling, if you let them.
So don’t let it stifle you.Don’t shoot just for competition, shoot for yourself, but when you choose which image to submit (to a magazine or to a competition) you can pick one that best fits those criteria. For example, If you want to get your work on the cover of a magazine — and shoot mostly horizontals and do not have any space for text, then it does not matter how much you like the image, or how much an art gallery likes it or how much a judge likes it,or how many Facebook likes you get – the magazine cannot practically use it because they need a vertical and they need room for their cover text. I tend to agree more with what John Barclay wrote than Cole because I feel critiques can be more useful than competitions. And keep in mind that Camera Clubs and photography associations are not the only ones doing critiques, almost all workshops have an image review with the same goal in mind, to learn and improve, not to “have each person bring an image that they really love and have them explain the story behind the image.”. I love the concept of the artist explaining their vision, but I do not agree with Cole’s “Instruct the audience not to discuss the technical aspects of the image or ask technical questions and most importantly, refrain from giving advice” I feel that Cole may be too far removed from the beginner photographer and forget that we can improve the learning curve by sharing and offering technical advice.
Hi Cole,
I’m sort of split on this; I can see the benefit in the critique of less experienced people’s work, but only if that is directed in a supportive, encouraging direction – it is, after all, so easy to completely destroy a newcomer to the art’s possibly weak confidence in what they are doing and drive them away from photography. And you never know where the next Cole may come from… But, I also agree on the monthly (weekly it seems like in some clubs) competitions – the members develop a skill alright – a skill for producing the image that they know, through exposure to the judge, pushes all his/her ‘buttons’ and is likely to get a good mark. Here in the UK there are precious few judges that are really, really good enough to judge both without any personal preference but also ‘on the fly’ as they see the image presented. Those, if I am honest, are the good evenings, but they are sadly usually too infrequent. What this results in, of course, is the ‘Club Photographers Vision’ and it’s almost the same as everyone else’s (they are all competing for the same prize after all). Perhaps the prize of the immediate ‘win’ clouds the reality of the bigger prize to be had from one’s own Vision in these cases?
The other downside is not being given the opportunity to defend one’s image – I think your comment about self-critiquing and communicating your ideas and ‘vision’ to the wider audience is a great suggestion, though I suspect only the really strong (and determined) would give that a go. Perhaps it’s time to start rocking some boats…
Thanks again for some useful thoughts and best regards, Neil.
I don’t wish to hurt people’s feelings over this topic. I know that some feel quite strongly that competitions and critiquing are important learning tools.
But I can only speak from my experience and honestly tell you how I feel.
I do agree that “encouragement” plays a very important role in a person’s development. I was so lucky to have three mentors in my life: Joe Boyle, John Holland and Vered Galor who provided encouragement that kept me going. I am so lucky that I did not have someone who criticized my work or told he how I should have done it.
If I was ever going to budge an inch on this topic, it would be to say that a good critiquer (is that a word?) would be someone who asks questions and causes me to think about what I want to do. It would be someone who would encourage me to pursue my Vision by helping me to understand it, rather than encouraging me to follow rules or their Vision by telling me what I should do with the image.
I was lucky to find mentors who did this and I applaud their approach and kind encouragement.
Keith, you and I have had different experiences in this area and have come to different conclusions. But the good news is that one size doesn’t fit all and so whatever works for you, is great!
I think the discussion is good for all of us to consider and many more agree with you than with me…so maybe you’re right!
I can only offer what I honestly believe today and also keep my mind open to new ideas and thoughts for tomorrow.
Thanks Cole. I have come to the perspective that as you develop your skills in a real-world environment, as I shared earlier, and we’ve both lived through that, there comes a point where yes, the vision one has is essential. It gives everyone a certain “creative freedom” for their own expression. But there is a role earlier on where outside influences lay the ground work for a truly great vision. As they say, “Stop imitating Ansel Adams.”